5 Steps to A Heavenly Relationship with Food

April: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the SANE show. I am April Perry, here with Jonathan Bailor who is wearing his Elmo shirt. So, if you’re watching the video – Jonathan, you’ve got to step back a little bit so we can see your Elmo shirt, in the screen, zoom out a little bit.

Jonathan: Zoom out, you can see my busted light at the top of my office. If you zoom down, I don’t know if you can see it. There he is, Elmo.

April: I can see Elmo. Oh my gosh, this is awesome. So, if you’re listening to the audio version of this podcast, come find the video, because you have to see Jonathan with Elmo. I actually sent him a text this morning saying, “Hey, what are the chances we could get you wearing your Elmo shirt today?” And the reason why is that we want to give you a little personal side of who we are as we are going into today’s topic. I’ll introduce the topic really briefly, which is, how finding SANE is like dating the right person, and we’re going to each share how we met our spouses.

This is why I want to share this. I have been following Jonathan for a couple of years and I listened to all of his podcasts before I had ever met him. And I remember one podcast – it was not a video, but he was wearing his Elmo shirt, and I thought, who is this man who wears an Elmo shirt? Because I didn’t have any friends who wore Elmo shirts. But I thought it was just kind of fun to learn a little bit about his personality. Clearly, I’m coming to the podcast to learn about burning fat and being healthy and having a strong body, but when you know a little bit that the person behind the microphone is actually a person, I think that’s helpful.

So today we are going to be sharing a little bit of our personal stories. You can see that yes, we are people, we’re not just random voices out there podcasting. But we’re going to talk about how SANE really is amazing and it is like you’re finally dating the right person. So, just as a quick intro – we won’t take long on this – Jonathan, if you want to share just briefly how you and Angela met, I think your story is super cute. Can you give us the synopsis, the Cliff Notes version of it?

Jonathan: You were spot on, that relationship metaphor is hugely powerful and I’m going to talk about it for the rest of the show. But when you think about it, the language fits. We do talk about having a healthy relationship with food. So, we use that word, and really, unpacking that metaphor is super powerful.

I met my wife when I was still working at Microsoft. I worked at Microsoft at the Nike + Kinect training and the Xbox Fitness, and actually did some work with Jillian Michaels, who we were talking about on the last show, as well as Shanti, Tracy Anderson and Tony Horton. So, lots of good fun stuff.

April: Awesome.

Jonathan: Microsoft is pretty densely populated with engineers that are geeky guys. I came out here and I was thinking, “Oh my goodness, I don’t know if I’ll be able to meet someone that I would be wanting to spend my time with.” But there is a gym that is provided free of charge to all Microsoft employees. I was there with one of my friends and there were two females in the entire gym that were about my age and seemed like they would be of potential interest, and one of them was on a machine – so my buddy was on the machine to my right and she was on the machine to his right. She had headphones on, so I thought she couldn’t hear me, and I made a comment along the lines of, “Well, that was my five minutes next to a beautiful woman this year,” or something like that. And she just started cracking up, and so I got so embarrassed, I was not intending for her to hear that. So I ran away. My buddy started talking to her and then he came over and he said, “Dude, you are the worst!” So I just ran away.

And then about six months passed and I had made a commitment to myself that if I ever saw that individual again I would do something a little bit more appropriate, but I had some conditions on that because, as you know, my first job was as a personal trainer, and I know firsthand from training predominantly female clients, how females are sometimes treated at the gym. And I had a commitment, you never go up and talk to anyone, especially a female, while they are working out, or while they are doing something, because they are there to work out and do their stuff, not to get talked to by guys, right?

April: Yes.

Jonathan: So I thought, “If I see her and she doesn’t have her headphones on, and she is not exercising at the gym – so I gave myself permission to never actually have to do anything – then I’ll say something. About six or eight months later one of my buddies from college – we are actually celebrating our ten-year anniversary this year, so this happened a long time ago – he was in town so I had false confidence, I was like, “Yeah, my buddy from college is here.”

And I saw her and she didn’t have her headphones on, she was just wrapping up her workout and leaving. And so I thought, “Well, I told myself I would do this,” so I walked over to her, and I have actually only dated two people in my entire life. One was the young lady I dated prior to meeting my wife and the other one is my wife, so I [Inaudible _00:05:24_]. I went up to her and I said, “Hello, my name is Jonathan Bailor. I’m sorry to do this, I don’t normally do this, but would you like to get dinner sometime?” That’s all I said.

And then she kind of hemmed and hawed and basically said, “No, I’m studying for my CPA exam, I don’t have time.” But in a kind way. And so I thought, “Oh, no.” And then my brain kicked in and then my life changed in an instant, because I thought of something which then eventually led to me marrying this woman, which was the statement, “Well, you can bring your flash cards.”

April: I love that. I still laugh about that.

Jonathan: And so she said, “Okay.” She kind of laughed and she wrote her phone number on a slip of paper which I still have, and then we ended up dating, and then we got married three years later. That’s how I met my wife.

April: I love it. Well, I won’t go into all the details of mine, but the quick story is that Eric and I were in a leadership group in college. They took us on this mountain trek. Now, we had known each other a little bit. We had seen each other, kind of gone out a little bit, but not really, just kind of more as a group. But we were on this trek. They actually gave us llamas. On the trek, we’re marching with llamas, over the mountains. Ours gets heat stroke. It was seriously ridiculous, we had this date planned for later that night. The llama gets heat stroke and collapses on the mountain and we’re stuck up there until ten o’clock at night waiting for the llama’s owner to come and get the llama. So, totally ridiculous.

However, I had pulled my hip flexor while we were hiking and I was kind of limping, and Eric had been holding my hand to help me get through the snow and that kind of thing, and on the way down the mountain after the llama had been taken care of, it was late of night at this point, and he was holding my hand, taking me down the mountain, and he said, “How is your hip flexor feeling?” And I said, “Oh, it’s feeling great, but does that mean I have to let go of your hand?”

Jonathan: Boom!

April: And he said, “No, you don’t have to let go of my hand.” Then we held hands because we wanted to, it was really cute. And we’ve been holding hands ever since, almost 18 years now, which is awesome.

Jonathan: Oh, that’s very awesome. And April, I just want to make one comment. I know from a few shows back we said, we actually coined a new hashtag which gained some momentum on the Internet, and that was /that’s a lot of clams. I think we now have /heatstroke llama.

April: I love that. That’s how we met. I know, we’ve got this special bond now with llamas.

So why are Jonathan and I even talking about this? I have identified four ways that learning about SANE is like starting to date the right person. Actually, five ways now. Do you notice that you start feeling kind of giddy when you talk about those first days and talk about the first date, how excited you were? There is kind of this giddiness, I think, that comes with finding SANE, because you are realizing, “Oh my goodness, I’ve finally found what I was looking for.” So giddiness, I would say, is number one. You nodded your head, Jonathan, so I am assuming that you do feel the same thing?

Jonathan: Absolutely, I think that giddiness comes from, you get this sense that, “I’m home. This is something I’ve found that I can do for the long term.” That’s the difference. You don’t really get giddy when you meet someone at a bar. “Oh, this will be fun for tonight.” There’s no giddiness involved with that. And we know, hey, if you just want fast results, there’s a way to get fast results, but that’s probably not what you’re after. But when you know you’ve found something that’s long-term, and that you can have a long-term relationship with, that’s where that giddiness comes into play, and that’s why I’m so excited about the SANE lifestyle because it is 100% focused on developing that long-term relationship with food and exercise that you can maintain.

April: Yes, and I love that. That was actually my number two, that this is for the long-term, it’s not just for the short-term. Honestly, that’s the thing that I feel so thrilled about and I’m grateful for every day. I know not everyone is fortunate enough to have a relationship right now that they feel that way about, so I want to be sensitive to that, but that’s where we want at least still be able to talk about this, because these principles are true, whether it is finding a spouse, or finding a really good friend, or finding something that fits with your life. But I feel grateful that this man that I found up on the mountain with the llama, we now have four children, he supports me every day, he takes care of me every day. This is a long-term thing, 18 years. Sometimes we are joking about things and he says, “Yes, April, this is actually just a long con. There is actually this whole ulterior motive I have, and it’s a long con, all these years of marriage and children, of course not.” But I love that about SANE.

And one of the other things I really admired when you were talking about you and Angela was that you admired that she had the discipline to be pursuing this CPA exam, to be taking a test, that she was studying. she was working on something that was important to her. And I think you mentioned you said something like, “You know, Angela, I’m really happy to support you in this,” because eventually you wanted to marry someone who has goals and passions and excitements, as well. Is that right?

Jonathan: That’s exactly right. In fact, we only went on four dates, and then she said, “Look, Jonathan, I had a really good time, but the reason I initially was hesitant was because I need to finish my CPA exam and I’m really having a good time, but I need to do this now. And I’d totally love to spend time with you afterward.” And that made me only admire her more, because when you’re in something for the long term, you approach it so much differently. If what I was after was short-term results, I’d be like, “I’m out of here! What’s this nonsense?”

April: Right.

Jonathan: But when you after it for the long term, here is what you do, and here is exactly what I did. I said, “That’s no problem.” At that time she lived on the way home from the gym, so what we would do is, twice a week, on my way home, I would stop by her house. We would literally time it. We would spend ten minutes together twice a week. We would have ten-minute timed dates. Because you know what? When you’re in it for the long term, you do different things. I don’t want to beat a heat-stricken llama – I don’t want to beat a dead horse – but when you take on the long-term mindset, even concepts like a 30-day detox, or the seven-day shred, or a 21-day cleanse – imagine taking that mindset. That’s like saying, “This is my relationship with food, this is my relationship with exercise.” You can have a relationship with anything. You have a relationship with money. You have a relationship with higher power. You have a relationship with other people. We know that if you take a short-term approach with your relationship to anything, you can get “results” but they’re not the results that make you happy long term.

April: Right. As I’ve been thinking about long term, I’ve actually combined that also with the whole person. It’s about the whole person, it’s not just about, is this guy going to look cute in my engagement picture? Or, are we going to have cute kids if I marry him? It’s how are we matched? How does this affect me socially? How is this going to affect me financially? There are a lot of decisions that go into finding the right person, and I think that’s why I love SANE so much, and that’s why I have enjoyed working with you so much, is that it’s about the whole person. It’s not, “Hey, April, what’s your waist size? Hey, April, what’s your body fat percentage?” You never ask me those things. But you do care if I’m getting enough sleep, if things are going well with my family, if my brain and my intellect are doing well. You care about the whole person, not just about that one aspect. And so, I think that is extremely important.

Jonathan: It is extremely important and it also exemplifies another way that this metaphor fits, which is, you can find someone who is very attractive, but they may not have these other characteristics that you want to have. So you may find this way of eating that makes you ketogenic, or that does this one thing, or that does this other thing. But the goal is, I want something that nourishes my mind, my body, my soul, that tastes good, that makes me full. It has all of these things in a way that, like you said, is holistic, it gives you that sense of serenity and comfort, not just it does this one thing really well.

April: Yes, I love that. So, number one was it made us giddy. Number two is it is for the long-term, it’s about the whole person. Number three, I was actually kind of excited about putting this together. The more that you learn about SANE, the more you like it. And that is what I’ve found in meeting my husband. The more I learned about him, the more I loved him, the more I liked him. And there are a lot of times where you meet people – and this doesn’t have to be just in dating, but people in general – and you meet them initially, or you see their social medial profile, or you see their website, or you see some version of them, their best representative, and you think, “Oh, that person is awesome!” And then you start working with them, or you get to know them, and you quickly realize, we are not a good fit. This is not going to go anywhere.

And it’s really interesting, our daughter just started dating, and we’re counseling her – Hey, before you even start thinking anything serious, you want to get to know them when they’re angry, when they’re tired, when they’re frustrated, when they’re impatient. You need to see every part of them and get to know them really well, because if you see them angry, impatient, frustrated, and you like that, or you can at least work with it, that’s great. Otherwise, you are going to be in a whole lot of trouble. I just learned that with SANE. The more I learn about SANE – I’ve known about it for two years now – the more I love it.

Jonathan: That fits beautifully, April, because think about, like you said, and I’m going to compact it just a little bit, with so many relationships, it starts out really well, and then it gets worse over time. With a lot of 30-day shreds, or seven-day this, or eat less exercise more, itt starts out great, “Oh, my gosh, I lost two pounds by not eating anything this week. Awesome!” But then over time, it gets worse. Starving yourself gets harder the longer you do it – fact. We’ve all experienced that. The longer you try to stay on a calorie-restrictive, food-restrictive diet, the harder it gets. However, in contrast, the longer you go SANE, the easier it becomes because your tastes change, and your nutrient deficiencies go away, and the inflammation in your brain goes away.

April: And your habits change.

Jonathan: And your habits change, so literally, the challenge with some of what I do is that, the first week of SANE it’s not super fun to stop eating sugar, it’s not super easy to eat 12 servings of vegetables. Bread is good, as Oprah attests to, readily. However, as you get used to making your bread, which you can eat every day, you just make it with almond flour, or you make it with coconut flour, and you start getting used to eating more vegetables, you start to crave those things, and it actually becomes easier to do that which is SANE and right than to do the other things. So that’s awesome.

April: Yes, I’ve absolutely found that. Right now I just think, the moment I wake up in the morning, I’m eating vegetables. I have been both preparing my eggs and getting those ready for breakfast. I feel like I’m finally in this routine and I love it, and I love how happy I feel, and I’m kind of forgetting how unhappy I used to feel. I’m not forgetting enough that I can’t still relate, because that was such a part of my life for 20-plus years, but I feel like, “This is amazing.” So I think that’s another test, when you’re thinking about the diet you are on, or thinking about what you are doing with your food, if the longer you do the diet, the more you adore it, then you know you’re doing the right thing. So, that’s what SANE is for me. All right, are we ready for number four?

Jonathan: Number four.

April: There is no drama. We won’t go too much into our dating history because they might be listening, so I’m going to be really careful what I say here, but there have been times, I’ll just say, for many people in the world, when dating turns into huge drama. Oh my goodness, people are moody, or manipulative, or, oh my gosh, I have way too many journals filled with stories about boys who just frustrated me. So, we’ll just stop it right there.

But there can be a lot of drama in relationships, and one of the things that I noticed when I met Eric and we started dating – there was no drama. It was just easy, it was just comfortable. I wasn’t hemming and hawing, “Oh, is he the right guy? Do you think he is? Do you think he’s not?” It was just, “Oh, you’re awesome, I love being with you.”

And our relationship is not perfect, clearly. I have hormone shifts, he’s got mood changes. We’re totally normal, and we have our days. But we really love each other and there is no drama. We’re not playing games with each other. And you hear that a lot in relationships, people playing games. “You text me, and then I’ll text you, and then I’ll wait and see if you text me back.” Or, “Who’s going to call first?” All that stuff. When you have the right relationship, you’re not going to worry about the drama.

Jonathan: And playing games is such a great metaphor, April, and I’m going to call something out here.

April: Okay.

Jonathan: Weight-Watchers plays a game. They say that if you don’t eat breakfast or lunch, you can absolutely have that toxic, gluten, high-fructose sugar, pink slime dinner that you want. It’s a game. You can exchange points, you can trick your body. “Aha, body! I tricked you into eating garbage and I can still lose weight.” Which is right, because you could absolutely lose weight eating garbage if you starve yourself.

April: That’s such a good point, Jonathan.

Jonathan: Right. It’s a game. Whereas with SANE it’s nonstarchy vegetables, nutrient-dense protein, whole food fats, low-fructose fruits, in that order. The more of those things you eat, in that order, so that you’re so full that you can’t eat toxic nonsense, you will get great results. That’s it.

April: There you go. I love that you just brought that up, because it’s so true, and I didn’t even think of that, but I’ve done Weight-Watchers, I went to the meetings, I have my points calculator, the old school one with the slide rule kind of thing. I did that. And this is where we have to talk about goals again, too. If your goal is to eat garbage, or eat whatever you want, and lose weight without eating too much, just eat little bits of whatever you want – there we go, we’ll clarify. If that’s your goal to eat little bits of whatever you want, or to go hungry and then eat what you want, then Weight-Watchers probably is the right solution for you. If you don’t want to be hungry and you want to love your body and you want to feel healthy and strong, then SANE is the way to go.

Jonathan: You are exactly right. And if your goal is health, because let’s not forget, for example, the neurologically protective effects of SANE fats, where in a calorie-counting weight-watching model, taking cod liver oil – you would have to be like, well, now I can’t eat breakfast because I took cod liver oil, because it has calories, and it has this many Weight-Watchers points. So, there is no situation in which eating more food is rewarded, whereas in reality, if your goal is fat loss, if your goal is health, the only way to do that is to eat more of the right types of food. So, is it about a deprivation drama model, or is it about a simple model of surplus and energy?

April: I choose no drama.

Jonathan: I love it. Me, too.

April: All right. And then, this final one is kind of similar to the first one – the first one was making us giddy. The final one is it makes you happy, but this is, I think, a little different. It’s not just the giddiness, and actually, this is a valid point and I’m glad I saved this for last, and I’m glad I made it different, because I met a person recently who said, “I want to feel giddy every day in my marriage.” Now, okay, I think that could be possible, but I think that you’re setting yourself up for failure if you think that you’re going to have butterflies in your stomach every single day throughout your whole marriage. Because there is something different – and you probably know more about this as far as how the brain works – but there is something different when you first meet someone and you’re excited about that, than there is when you’ve been married for 50 years and you have a long life together where you have invested in each other and helped each other. There is something totally different.

And what I will say is while I do still feel giddy, I tell Eric, “If I turn the corner, and I’m driving down the street and I see your car there, I always do get a little like, oh, Eric’s home!” He works from home so he’s home all the time, but still, when I see his car I always still get a little, hey, my honey’s home, which is great.

But I’ve noticed that how I would describe our relationship now is that I’m really happy with him – long-term happiness. I feel like any time I’m having a bad day, I can just call him and say, “Hey, honey can we talk? I am so stressed out, I’m frustrated.” He’ll hold me, he’ll take care of me, he’ll totally make sure that I’m okay. And I just feel happy we have this trust. He can trust me, I trust him, we have a strong family. That is amazing to me. That means the world to me.

And that is how I feel, honestly, that’s what SANE does for me. I have a trust. “Okay, SANE, I’m eating my vegetables, I’m eating my protein, now you help deliver this strong, healthy body that I want.” I feel like this trust is there, and I feel like I want this as our new hashtag, /SANEforlife, because that’s how I feel, SANE for life. This is awesome.

Jonathan: Yes, April, the bottom line is that starvation cannot make you happy – can’t – not going to happen. Just like, with respect, the sort of one night stand model of relationships – not going to make you happy. I don’t think anyone is going to be looking backing on their life and saying, “You know, the great source of happiness in my life was all of those one night stands that I had, that was awesome.”

But similarly, no one is looking back on their life and saying, “The more I starve myself, the happier I become.” That just doesn’t work. The way to happiness is that long-term, what we call nutritional serenity, it is having a relationship based on abundance, and about pursuing more of the positive rather than just eliminating things. It’s the more flies with honey rather than vinegar model, and inSANE is all about that.

April: All right. Well, thank you Jonathan, I was really excited to get to share these ideas today and it was fun having you in your Elmo shirt, getting to share your story about your wonderful Angela. I love being able to talk about SANE honestly, being a relationship, being something that will bless your life, help you to be healthy and happy forever. So thanks for being with us, have a wonderful day, and remember to stay SANE.