Key Takeaways
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Main Points:
- Find a free blueprint for SANE eating on SANESolution.com.Ā (At the top of the page) This list identifies a spectrum of SANE choices and will help you determine optimal SANEity.
- Legumes fit in the middle of the SANE spectrum and are considered a āyellow-lightā food. It is fine to eat 0-2 servings of legumes per day.
- You don’t want to go out of our way to eat legumes, but they are acceptable to eat in a SANE diet.
- If you have to choose between spending money on organic vegetables or grass-fed beef, you would want to choose grass-fed beef. Since you are eating so many vegetables in a SANE lifestyle, buying organic vegetables could become cost prohibitive. It is possible to wash pesticides off of vegetables, but impossible to change the makeup of conventional beef. Plus, combine this strategy with our patented postbiotics.
- Your body becomes desensitized or resistant to the processed chemicals found in inSANE foods after you have eaten them for so long.
- When you go SANE you are reversing a condition called metabolic dysregulation.
- Once your body gets used to eating SANE foods you will find that inSANE foods will often cause you to feel sick.
- If your body can crave SANE foods it makes it so much easier to not become diabetic or overweight.
- Preparing SANE foods for children is not as easy as feeding them inSANE garbage. It requires effort.
- Start with finding a non-starchy vegetable that your child likes. Then add a nutrient-dense protein and whole-food fat they like. Then add a low-fructose fruit. Have your child help you prepare their lunch so they can help choose between healthy options.
- You can help reluctant family members by:
- Eliminating any judgement/have mutual respect for food choices
- Research and try new recipes
- Set out new offerings/new food for everyone to try
- SANE is not an evangelical thing. You don’t ever want to force anyone to do anything. Consider the Ghandi quote, āBe the change you want to see in the world.ā
- Be a beacon of light in terms of your SANEity and when asked about your choices, you can say, āHereās what I do,ā or, āIf I was in that situation, I would do this.ā Never use the word, āyou.ā
- Focus on your own health and try to make healthy choices available to your family.
- SANE is a behavior change. For some people, their health is not a priority.
- There are limitations on what we can do, so we canāt hold ourselves to an unachievable standard when it comes to how everyone else in our lives eats every day of their lives.
- Book Recommendations from Jonathan and April:
- Consider listening to audiobooks while chopping up vegetables and choose information-dense books just like you do nutrient-dense foods.
SANE Soundbites
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- 2:25 – 2:57, āOne of the things that really helped me when I was first getting to know SANE and getting to know you was when you said something like, āI donāt go out of my way to put black beans in my smoothies, for example. Ā Iām not trying to figure out more ways to eat black beans but if I go to a restaurant like Chipotle and Iām getting a big salad and Iāll put black beans on there. Ā Itās not like I canāt eat them. Ā But if youāre going to choose between eating more deep green leafy vegetables or beans or hummus, then you would just choose the vegetables.ā
- 6:20 – 6:55, āWhat could be happening and what does happen definitely with sugar and processed carbs is your body becomes desensitized to them. Ā This is actually what leads to diabetes because your cells become resistantāitās called insulin resistance. Ā Thereās things like leptin resistance in your brain; things that normally wouldāthe amount of sugar that it would take for you to feel bad once youāre in this resistant state is radically decreased, which is a good thing, once you go SANE.ā
- 6:58 – 7:27, āItās like your internal organs have developed calluses so that they can protect themselves from this influx of nonsense. Ā As you go SANE, what youāre technically doing is youāre reversing a condition called metabolic dysregulation and youāre getting rid of those calluses on your organs and cells so even a little amount will now actually get into them and then it makes you feel bad because that āprotective layerā is gone but that āprotective layerā causes diabetes so you donāt want that.ā
- 11:04 – 11:27,āHaving diabetes is hard and itās not fun. Ā Being overweight is hard and itās not fun. Ā Having food allergies is hard and itās not fun. Ā It is objectively easier to pull a Lunchable off the shelf and to stick it in a bag and to say, āBilly, eat this.ā Preparing SANE lunches for kids is not as easy as feeding kids garbage. Ā Itās not. Ā Thereās no way around that.ā
- 14:40 – 15:21, āI would beg people to give themselves permission to keep this simple. Ā Like, what you just saidāthere is non-starchy vegetables, nutrient-dense protein, and whole food fats. Find a non-starchy vegetable that your child likes. Ā You could have eggs. Ā For the protein, you could have cottage cheese; you could have Greek yogurt; you could have cut-up seasoned chicken breast; you could have ground beef; you could have tuna fish. I mean, we could sit here and list nutrient-dense proteins and we could sit here and list various nuts and seeds. Ā The bottom line is, just find that basic templateāWhatās a vegetable they like? Ā Whatās a nutrient-dense protein they like? Ā Whatās some whole food fats they like? Ā Throw an ice pack in there. Ā Throw a piece of fruit in there. Ā Youāre good to go.ā
- 16:21 – 16:49, āWe want to eliminate any judgment. Ā If Iām eating healthy food and someone in the family has chosen to eat something thatās not healthy, if I am looking at them like, āThereās not as good as I am,ā or if thereās any judgment going on, thatās just going to kill it right there. Ā There has to just be this mutual respect, especially as people are adults and they can make their own choices. Ā Thatās, I think, essential. Ā Youāve got to do it for you first.ā
- 17:03 – 17:21, āI think the more you can come up with new recipes and new ideas and just keep putting offerings out in front of peopleāitās not going to happen overnight but eventually, the people who are not eating healthfully will start eating a little bit more healthfully as you kind of figure out a way to make it work together.ā
- 19:19 – 19:41, āIf you can create that dynamic where your results are so self-evident and beautiful that people start asking you what theyāre doing or start asking for your suggestions, then you always phrase them in the context of, āHereās what I do,ā or, āIf I was in that situation, I would do this.ā Ā You never use the word āyouā. Ā I think you will have fantastic results.ā
- 20:41 – 20:55, āAs I focus on my own health and I focus on learning new recipes for my family and Iām chopping vegetables and Iām making it available to them and letting them know how much I love it, that influence is going to carry over at some point.ā
- 24:06 – 24:34, āThere is a limitation on what we can do and I just know sometimes weāre so hard on ourselves. Ā What you eat is such a critical part of your life but thereās a lot of other critical parts of your lives that we donāt consider ourselves to be one hundred percent accountable for what everyone else in our life does. Ā Hopefully, we donāt hold ourselves to an unachievable standard when it comes to how everyone else in our lives eats every day of their lives.ā
- 28:17 – 28:36, āThere is a SANE approach to reading. Ā The SANE approach to reading, for instance, is, like, thereās junk food and there is real substantive food. Ā Thereās a lot of junk that can be read and then there are things like biographies of great individuals and listening to audio books.ā
- 28:51 – 29:19, āDonāt get all your information from podcasts and magazines because when you have a human being that spends ten years of their life creating a synthesis of information that spans three hundred pages, I mean, thatās ten yearsā worth of someoneās life that you can enjoy while youāre cooking your vegetables. Ā I mean, thatās a huge thing. Ā So, just like you eat nutrient-dense foods, I would look for information-dense books rather than snack food, portioned-out information.ā
- 30:48 – 31:29, āPractically done is infinitely better than theoretically perfect.ā Ā What I mean by that is, weāre always like, theoretically, should we drink water at these times and what theoretically is the best thing to do? Ā No, no, no. Theories donāt change your life. Ā What you actually do is what changes your life. Ā The question is not, āIs it theoretically perfect?ā Ā The question is, āIs it compatible with your lifelong term and your happiness?ā Ā With all these questions and with any question that you have, any answer that you hear, try to make sure, āI can actually do this in my life sustainably and enjoyably. Ā If I canāt, the answer is no. Ā If I can, the answer is yes.ā
Read the Transcript
April: Hello, everybody. Itās April Perry and Jonathan Bailor back with another episode of the SANE Show. Are you ready for a great podcast today, Jonathan?
Jonathan: Iām ready, April. I know weāve got a packed mailbag. I saw Santa Claus coming in. He had a SANE sack full of questions and Iām ready to answer them.
April: All right. I actually really love the questions today and I love whatās happening out there as more people are learning about SANE and going SANE. These questions always inspire me so Iām super appreciative of those who submitted them. Weāre just going to go ahead and start with just a really simple one that I think is based on the main food groups of SANE but not always clear to people who are getting started.
All right, SANE eating and legumesāāI understand that veggies first, then protein, then the wholefood fats and the low-fructose fruit, etc. Iām a girl who loves legumes. Where do those fit in? Specifically, black beans and hummus. Can I fit those in? If so, whatās the max amount I should have in a day?ā
Okay, Jonathan. Let us know.
Jonathan: Here comes the best possible answer. We have actually a free download which answers this and all questions related to the number of servings you can eat. If you go to SANESolutions.com and you click on Free Blueprint, you can actually download a guide which outlines what we call the SANE food groups as well as the SANE spectrum and the recommended servings for each of those food groups. What youāll see in that downloadāgo to SANESolution.com, click on Blueprint at the top of the screenāis that we have essentially three big categories of food.
Letās call them āgreen lightā foods. These are foods that are super SANE and we want to go out of our way to eat more of them. Then we have āyellow lightā foods which are usually categorized as 0-2 servings per day are fine. Donāt go out of your way to eat more of them but eating none of them is fine and if you want to eat one or two servings of them, itās not going to increase your likelihood of getting diabetes, for example. Then, there are āred lightā foods which are foods we want to eat so much of the āgreen lightā foods that weāre just too full for them.
Legumes fit right there in the middle where 0-2 servings per day can be totally fine. This person is clear. They are ready to go and you can get all that information at SANESolution.com. Just click on Blueprint.
April: One of the things that really helped me when I was first getting to know SANE and getting to know you was when you said something like, āI donāt go out of my way to put black beans in my smoothies, for example. Iām not trying to figure out more ways to eat black beans but if I go to a restaurant like Chipotle and Iām getting a big salad and Iāll put black beans on there. Itās not like I canāt eat them. But if youāre going to choose between eating more deep green leafy vegetables or beans or hummus, then you would just choose the vegetables. All right?
Jonathan: Thatās exactly right. That is the key distinction, April. We can really simplify this. There are foods you would want to consciously eat more of; thereās foods that if theyāre served to you, itās fine; then there are foods that I would strongly recommend you do not spend money on ever. Beans are in that middle category. If theyāre served to you or if theyāre whatās available, itās all good, but no need to go buy a fifty-pound bag of beans.
April: Okay. All right, I know this next question was really fun. āI want to know higher priority. If I had to pick one, would you pick grass-fed beef or organic vegetables?ā
Jonathan: Grass-fed beef.
April: Okay. Why?
Jonathan: Vegetables need to be eaten in such high quantities that buying organic could become cost prohibitive, trying to afford sixteen servings of organic vegetables per day might be out of the budget for a lot of people. Also, the total disregard for animal health that takes place with conventional beef and just the amount of toxicity that can be stored in fatty cuts of conventional beef is not good. I mean, you can wash pesticides to some extent off of plants; what they do to cows in modern farming is not a good thing that you canāt wash off.
April: You canāt wash that off, yes. Okay, thatās a really good, good answer there. Okay, next questionāsensitive stomach. āIāve noticed that now that I have been SANE for more than a year, if I eat anything inSANE like French fries or a lot of white bread or chocolate cake, etc., I get really sick to my stomach. Itās a good thing because it helps me not want to eat the inSANE food but Iām wondering whatās going on with my system?ā
Say about that.
Jonathan: Iāve never thought about it in the context ofāone could call it a maladaptation which is, somehow when we eat nonsense foods, we feel less bad eating them than when we stop eating them for a while and our bodyās like, āAgh, whatās going on?ā I donāt know if thereās been any peer-reviewed research around why if you eatāactually, okay, so there probably is. Now Iām going to go from proven science to educated hypothesis so I just want to give that quick disclosure.
April: I think that clarity is great.
Jonathan: Okay, so hereās educated hypothesis from Jonathan Bailor. All right, so based on general, the way your brain and body works when it comes to being sensitive or lack thereof to chemicals, because food is the compilation of chemicals. We tend to not think of them that way but anything you put into your body triggers a cascade of chemical reactions in your body, whether itās a pill or whether itās a piece of spinach. Itās all information telling your body what to do.
April: Okay.
Jonathan: Letās think about alcohol, for example. Alcoholāif you drink a lot of it, your body responds by becoming adapted to alcohol and it takes more and more alcohol to trigger the same response.
April: Okay.
Jonathan: Letās say youāre in a fraternity college and youāre drinking a lot of alcohol and it takes a six-pack of beer to have any impact on your body. Then you stop drinking alcohol completely and you say, āOh my goodness. Once I drink one can of beer, I feel the same impact.ā What could be happening and what does happen definitely with sugar and processed carbs is your body becomes desensitized to them. This is actually what leads to diabetes because your cells become resistantāitās called insulin resistance. Thereās things like leptin resistance in your brain; things that normally wouldāthe amount of sugar that it would take for you to feel bad once youāre in this resistant state is radically decreased, which is a good thing, once you go SANE.
Yes, in some waysāactually, hereās a good analogy. Itās like your internal organs have developed calluses so that they can protect themselves from this influx of nonsense. As you go SANE, what youāre technically doing is youāre reversing a condition called metabolic dysregulation and youāre getting rid of those calluses on your organs and cells so even a little amount will now actually get into them and then it makes you feel bad because that āprotective layerā is gone but that āprotective layerā causes diabetes so you donāt want that. Does that help?
April: It really does help because I have definitely found this. I mean, now, even though I typically donāt even crave inSANE foods and I have really good SANE habits so itās just Iām not even hungry for them, I find that if Iām at a party and someone has this beautiful chocolate cake or something like that, like, āHey, you want some?ā, I actuallyāitās not just that Iām not hungry for it; itās like I donāt even want it because I know itās going to make me sick. I feel really grateful for that.
I told this lady one time we were at a party and I said, āOh, you know what? It would just make me so sick if I ate it.ā She said, āOh, I wish that were my problem. Thatās not my problem.ā I felt like, while it does sometimes feel like, āWow, Iām so healthy that I canāt eat anything unhealthy,ā I love it that my body now just craves good food. I just see inSANE food and there is not even a desire.
I think thatās what we want the whole world to get to. We donāt want to say, āEveryone needs to eat SANE food so you can really be healthy and then you can sit around looking at everyone else enjoying their life and their cupcakes and you can just feel like youāre going without that; youāre so deprived your whole life.ā Thatās not the goal.
I think itās helpful to know that as you heal your body and get rid of those calluses, as youāre saying as a symbol or as a metaphor there, I feel like, āThatās a great place to be.ā Now, youāre motivated not only to eat healthy so that you could be healthy but so that you donāt have to go through that sickness.
Jonathan: It is huge, April, because thatās when we see long term lifestyle change. When we talk about SANE eating objectively, SANE eating is less challenging than, letās say for example, being vegan. Being vegan is incredibly difficult to do but people who are vegansātheir whole family is vegan; they donāt feel deprived as a vegan; in fact, it makes them happy. Why? Because if they eat meat, it makes them feel sick.
Itās a self-fulfilling prophecy where they have a mind state and a physiological state where if they veer off their path, it is way more painful to them and way less pleasurable than staying on their path. If your body can crave and desire SANE foods and naturally avoid inSANE foods like a veganās body works relative to animals, I mean, how much easier does that make not becoming diabetic? Itās amazing.
April: I love it. Okay, soāthanks for that explanation. Thatās fantastic. Next question is, āAny ideas for easy lunches for young children?ā Okay, now we have more about this in the SANE Familyās Program so we wonāt take the whole show on this but let me just ask Jonathan. Letās say, youāre making lunch for a little child. What would you put in there?
Jonathan: The first question would be, Who is this little child and why am I making their lunch?
April: That is a good question.
Jonathan: First, itās like, What is this small child doing in my house and why are they asking me for lunch? Maybe someday, hopefully, that will be applicable if things go according to plan. Anyway, what would I serve to a small child for lunch? Thereās no question that it is going to be a little bit more of a challenge. Letās think about the way Lunchables are produced. Lunchables take meat and they add preservatives and just nonsense to them.
What I want to be transparent about is, there are things about, having diabetes is hard and itās not fun. Being overweight is hard and itās not fun. Having food allergies is hard and itās not fun. It is objectively easier to pull a Lunchable off the shelf and to stick it in a bag and to say, āBilly, eat this.ā
April: Yes.
Jonathan: Preparing SANE lunches for kids is not as easy as feeding kids garbage. Itās not. Thereās no way around that. What is a SANE lunch for a child? I think we need to take a more macro look at this and say, first, the concept of breakfast, lunch, and dinner are human-made constructs. The fact that youāre only supposed to eat eggs at breakfastāWhat?
Who said that? What does that mean? Could you, for example, have hard boiled eggs for lunch? Of course, you could have hard boiled eggs for lunch. Could you just pack for lunch what you ate for dinner last night in a Tupperware container with an ice pack? Yes, you could.
April: Yes.
Jonathan: I think the first thing is, once we free ourselves from this box of āThere are lunch foodsā versus āThere are just foodsā, that in and of itself can make figuring out what to put in the lunch bag way easier.
April: Okay, I love that you said that. I think, as far as answering this question, a little more in detail since I have an elementary schooler who Iām preparing lunch for and try to do as much SANEly as I can, Iāll share some of the things that are working for us but then I think, going into this next question at the same time, āHow do you help reluctant family members while trying to go SANE?ā, maybe talk about this a little bit more too because this is where some of the children may be reluctant.
Now, weāve been SANE in our homeāand not totally with all members but weāve been doing this for about two years now. Spencer was in second grade when we started and now heās in fourth grade. His biggest complaint is that he doesnāt feel cool opening vegetables when all of his friends have Cheez-Its and Oreos. Thatās his biggest concern. We talked a lot about the āwhyāāand I know weāve talked about this in previous episodes as wellāso thatās really important to have those conversations ongoing.
Okay, this morning, Spencer is making us lunch and so the first thing we do is, we look in the fridge and see which vegetables he wants to take. I gave him a choice. Today, we didnāt have a ton available. I said, āEither we can slice up this fruit or you can take a salad. The remains of [breaks up] āI want the pepper.ā So I started the cutting, took out the seeds and gave him the knife and the cutting board and he cut the rest of the pepper and put it in the bag. That was his vegetable choice.
Now, I would give him more vegetables but thatās about what I can do at lunch. I also sent him some fruit. We have orangesābig navel oranges. Heās learned how to cut them so he sliced his own orange and had a little bag of oranges. Then, Spencer has a hard time with protein but he will do egg whites if we do hardboiled egg whites. We can have a whole bunch of hardboiled eggs.
If Iāve got a ton of hardboiled eggs that are ready for him, he will peel those every day. He doesnāt have a problem taking those. Heāll sprinkle a little salt and pepper or whatever in the bag. Then, as far as nuts go, weāll put some wholefood fats in there. He likes raw almonds and he likes pistachios. Those are some that he likes. Thatās just kind of a starter.
Anything you would add to that, Jonathan, before we move on to reluctant family members?
Jonathan: Well, I like having that template. If anyoneās ever gone to a Mongolian grill type restaurant, they usually have different stations. Itās like, āHereās the rice and noodles, and hereās the vegetables, and hereās the protein.ā This goes back to a lot of previous episodes where itās like I would beg people to give themselves permission to keep this simple. Like, what you just saidāthere is non-starchy vegetables, nutrient-dense protein, and wholefood fats.
Find a non-starchy vegetable that your child likes. You could have eggs. For the protein, you could have cottage cheese; you could have Greek yogurt; you could have cut-up seasoned chicken breast; you could have ground beef; you could have tuna fish.
I mean, we could sit here and list nutrient-dense proteins and we could sit here and list various nuts and seeds. The bottom line is, just find that basic templateāWhatās a vegetable they like? Whatās a nutrient-dense protein they like? Whatās some wholefood fats they like? Throw an ice pack in there. Throw a piece of fruit in there. Youāre good to go.
April: Yes, definitely. Itās taken getting used to. Itās a lot more preparation. Spencerābefore he would get, like, two times a year, he could eat at the cafeteria at school. Today on the drive, he said, āCan I eat once at the cafeteria every holiday?ā So heās trying to kind of arrange this but the thing is, okay, heās eight. I can do as much as I can to help train him now, which Iām doing, but Iām hopeful that these are going to be habits that will carry on and heāll hear me reminding him to eat vegetables the rest of his life, which Iām excited about.
Okay, as far as how you help reluctant family members. Jonathan, I know that you have extended family members who arenāt all a hundred percent SANE. There are people in your life who arenāt one hundred percent SANE. In our family, Alia and I are like the most die-hard but it is hard because not everybody has the same goals that we do. Iāll just share a couple of things and then love to hear more from you, Jonathan, what you would recommend.
I think that, number one, is we want to eliminate any judgment. If Iām eating healthy food and someone in the family has chosen to eat something thatās not healthy, if I am looking at them like, āThereās not as good as I am,ā or if thereās any judgment going on, thatās just going to kill it right there. There has to just be this mutual respect, especially as people are adults and they can make their own choices. Thatās, I think, essential. Youāve got to do it for you first.
Then the other thing I would suggest is, the more you can research and find new recipesālike, we just made pizza on butternut squash instead of a crust the other day and the whole family ate it. Everyone ate it. That was exciting. I think the more you can come up with new recipes and new ideas and just keep putting offerings out in front of peopleāitās not going to happen overnight but eventually, the people who are not eating healthfully will start eating a little bit more healthfully as you kind of figure out a way to make it work together. Those are some initial ideas.
Jonathan: April, I just want to build off of the idea ofāif youāre going to try, I would say, try not to try. What I mean by that is, I donāt everāI donāt pursue or I donāt think SANE is an evangelical thing. Thereās a lot of researchāa lot of researchāthat shows the more you try to force someone to do something, the less theyāre going to do it. Period. For anything. I think weāve all experienced this. I live my life and Iāve structured the entire SANE Program to reflect, I believe, Gandhiās quote of āBe the change you want to see in the world.ā
The question of how to help reluctant family membersāthe literal question is how to help reluctant family members while trying to go SANE. I think the number one wayāhereās my specific recommendation. Officially, Jonathan Bailor on record, is, āBe a beacon of light in terms of your SANEity.ā Period. I would actually do nothing to try to make them SANE directly. I would justāwhen your kids start asking or your spouse or your partner or your roommate start asking, āWhat are you doing?ā or āYou are so much happier nowā; then just say, āHereās what Iām doing.ā You donāt even say, āYou should do this.ā Itās justā
Hereās a silly exampleāand Iām going to talk a little bit now. Iām sorry because Iām getting excited. For example, if you go to a gym or even if you meet someone in a social setting and they are very physically fit, itās very common. Theyāre not going up to their friends and theyāre being like, āTry this workout routine that Iām on. Itās really important. You should do it.ā People will come up to them and say, āSally, I havenāt seen you for five years. You look fantastic. What are you doing?ā Then, you donāt say, āWell, let me tell you what you should do.ā You say, āHereās what Iām doing.ā
If you can create that dynamic where your results are so self-evident and beautiful that people start asking you what theyāre doing or start asking for your suggestions, then you always phrase them in the context of, āHereās what I do,ā or, āIf I was in that situation, I would do this.ā You never use the word āyouā. I think you will have fantastic results.
April: I think thatās excellent. I think that that works with children as long as you and your spouse or your children have kind of set some parameters because, with little kids, if you just say, āYou can either eat sugar all day or you can eat SANE like me,ā the kids are just going to choose the sugar because they donāt understand yet. They donāt have that capability to really make clear decisions. I think, as children are starting to get older, like I found with my highschoolers, I feel like, āOkay, if they knowā¦ā
I have three teenagers now. My three teenagers know, āHereās what foods are healthy for you. Hereās what foods arenāt. Iām here to help you.ā There is not a compulsion to eat just like I do. I feel like the balance is really good. Itās to the point where I canāt beat myself up if every member of my family doesnāt want to eat ten servings of vegetables a day and if people like cookies. I canāt beat myself up over that and I canāt stress over that or Iāll just have anxiety all the time.
I think that what youāre saying is, like, as I focus on my own health and I focus on learning new recipes for my family and Iām chopping vegetables and Iām making it available to them and letting them know how much I love it, that influence is going to carry over at some point.
Jonathan: April, youāre spot-on that. Of course, a two-year-old childāyou donāt say, āSally, you could look both ways before you cross the street if you want to but Iām not going to enforce that.ā Itās definitely a little bit different based on age but I think the macro point thatās really important and I appreciate that distinction is, helping people to be SANE is not different from helping people to do anything. The way you, for example, protect your child from getting in a van with strangers versus the way you would protect your spouse from getting in a van with strangers is different. With any lifestyle changeā
SANE is a behavior change. The way we manifest behavior change in people is a science. Thatās been studied extensively. I think we sometimes look at food as if itās a uniqueāitās a behavior change. If you want to get your kids to play the piano, what do you do? Some kids arenāt into music. Some adults arenāt into music. You could try as hard as you want to get someone who is not musically inclined to love music; theyāre not going to do it.
Some people donāt care about their health. [Thereās] nobody, nowadays, [that] doesnāt know that smoking will kill them. Thereāre still plenty of people that smoke. For some people, their health is not a priority. Thereās nothing that can be done in that context until that person thinks that their health is a high priority.
April: Yes. I think, just taking that element out of yourāyou love that person whether or not theyāre eating the way that you want them to eat. I think that thatās just an important thing. I feel like, things weāve made mistakes on in the past is if there is ever any pressure or judgment. Anyway, take that for what itās worth.
Jonathan: April, thatās so critical too because even when people, like vegetarians or vegans, things like thatāthereās what I call the āawesomeā vegetarian/vegan who comes to a Thanksgiving and is cool about it and then thereās the ājudgmentalā vegetarian/vegan. Itās the same thing here. If youāre an awesome piano player, you donāt try to make everyone else a piano player. Youāre just like, āThis is what I do.ā If you start playing the piano and people are like, āThatās beautiful. How did you learn how to do that?ā Then of course, youāll share it. I see eating the same way.
April: Itās true but if someone never plays the piano, they usually wonāt die from that. I think thatās why thereās more emotion attached with this because you know if the people you love are eating food thatās awful for them, you know that that could cause diabetes or obesity or cause horrible health problems for them. So I feel like thatās where there is a lot of this emotion because you care so much. I think itās making that distinction between, āIs this someone for whom I have a stewardship, like a child, that I need to teach and train, or is this another adult in my life who can make their own choices?ā You have to be able to make that distinction.
Jonathan: I would urge people to give themselves permission. I know, for example, thereās been instances in my own family where thereās small children and then thereās teenagers and adults and itās a totally different ballgame. Like, if your teenager just says, āIām not going to go to schoolā; at some point, itās like, āWell, we canāt make them go to school. What do we do now? If they donāt go to school, their life will objectively be worse.
There is a limitation on what we can do and I just know sometimes weāre so hard on ourselves. What you eat is such a critical part of your life but thereās a lot of other critical parts of your lives that we donāt consider ourselves to be one hundred percent accountable for what everyone else in our life does. Hopefully, we donāt hold ourselves to an unachievable standard when it comes to how everyone else in our lives eats every day of their lives.
April: I think thatās a good way to put it. Thank you.
Okay, I have a couple of more questions. Can we do these a little quicker?
Jonathan: Rapid fire. Iām ready.
April: Okay. Is there any alternative to coconut flour besides nut flour? Somebody says, āIām gluten-free. Iāve used rice flour or premade gluten flours but those arenāt SANE. Am I just out? Is there any way around it?ā I was justāI couldnāt think of anything. What would you say?
Jonathan: Iām not aware of anything. I mean, you basically have grain-based flours or nut-based flours. Thatās my understanding of whatās available. I mean, maybe there are legumeāI donāt know if you could use something like a pea or something legume-based. Maybe. I donāt know. Iām sorry.
April: Yes, I know because thatās super hard. Iām like, āOh, I donāt know what we would eat.ā Okay, next questionāSANE reading. āDo you have any books that you would recommend other than āThe Calorie Mythā, obviously? Any books that you tell people, āHere is just some great readingā if someoneās looking for an awesome audio book or a book from the library to help them, support them, in their SANE goals?ā
Jonathan: Yes, and they have nothing to do with eating because if you have your mind and personal productāApril, youāre an expert in this. If youāre depressed and disorganized, itās really hard to be SANE; whereas if youāre energetic and happy and organized, itās a lot easier to be SANE. If you havenāt read āThe 7 Habits of Highly Effective Peopleā, I would strongly recommend reading that book and treating it as almost likeāthatās been literally a lifesaver for me.
Things around personal productivity and how we manage our lives and our time and our prioritiesāI think once you get that stuff on lock, whether itās being SANE or being a great piano player or being a great spouse or being a great friendāanything you want to do, when you have your own house in order, becomes easier. My number one recommendation is āThe 7 Habits of Highly Effective Peopleā.
April: Love it. Love that.
Jonathan: What about you?
April: Okay. I guess, āGetting Things Done is my productivity book that I absolutely love but I worked with FranklinCovey and, yes, absolutely I recommend that as well. I donāt know. I feel like, as far as health books, thereās a lot of different books that have a lot of different ideas and so I just kind of stick with āThe Calorie Mythā but Iām always open to learning what other people are saying. That actually helps me to come up with good questions to ask you, Jonathan, because sometimes thereās other ideas that, āOh, thatās actually really helpful.ā
The other thing that I would think of or that I would recommend is just becoming more of a reader in general. We have talked about that in the past. Just as far as listening to audio books while youāre blending your smoothies or as youāre walking or exercising more, putting more goodness into your mind. Audio books has a bunch of free books on there. Iām listening to the biography of Benjamin Franklin right now. Thereās one of Abraham Lincoln I was just listening to. Iām reading all kinds of books on how to reduce anxiety, how to set goalsāI mean, thereās just so many good books out there. āEssentialismā is another one that I love.
Iām always reading. Probably like four books every week. Iām just reading all the time. I love it. I think whatās exciting about SANE is that itās encouraging you to build your whole lifeāmind, body, spiritāall of it at the same time. I think itās not necessarily like, āOh, you need these other health books.ā I think itās just like start going through the SANE formula as far as the vegetables and proteins and fats and then add into it, just additional great ideasāthe best books that you can learn about and hear about. We did a lot of this on LearnDoBecome.com so come hang out with us there and weāll talk more about books as well.
Jonathan: April, like you alluded to, there is a SANE approach to reading. The SANE approach to reading, for instance, is, like, thereās junk food and there is real substantive food. Thereās a lot of junk that can be read and then there are things like biographies of great individuals and listening to audio books. Thereās a free app you can use called OverDrive which works with your local library system where you can just get free audio books. I know people love podcasts.
This is a podcast; you should listen to this podcast but you should also listen to books and read books and donāt get all your information from podcasts and magazines because when you have a human being that spends ten years of their life creating a synthesis of information that spans three hundred pages, I mean, thatās ten yearsā worth of someoneās life that you can enjoy while youāre cooking your vegetables. I mean, thatās a huge thing. eat nutrient-dense foods, I would look for information-dense books rather than snack food, portioned-out information.
April: Love that. Awesome. Okay, I have one final question. This is my question but super kind of basic, maybe, for you. I heard that you shouldnāt drink water thirty minutes before you eat or while youāre eating or thirty minutes after youāre eating because it doesnāt digest your food right.
Jonathan: I think this falls in the category of āDo what works for you.ā Again, this isāif that is true, which I donāt know if it is true. You know what else is true? Drinking water is really good for you and being stressed unnecessarily is bad for you so if youāre like, āIām supposed to drink water but not now and if I drink water here, Iām badā; this falls in the category of āIgnore.ā Drink water.
April: Drink water. Okay, because I was thinking, Iām trying to drink a ton of water every day but if I canāt drink before or after Iām eating and Iām eating almostāyes, I was kind of stressed about it. Okay. I love how you always bring it down to just something super basic. Drink water. Donāt stress about it. Thatās really helpful. Okay, so next actionādo you have any suggestions for a next action for this? Weāve talked about a lot of questions in this mail bag today, which I think has been fantastic.
Jonathan: I think a good next actionāand this is like a catch phrase that Iāve been working on and I donāt actually know if itās fully refinedābut it has to do with the question you just asked and with the questions throughout, which is that, āPractically done is infinitely better than theoretically perfect.ā What I mean by that is, weāre always like, theoretically, should we drink water at these times and what theoretically is the best this to do? No, no, no.
Theories donāt change your life. What you actually do is what changes your life. The question is not, āIs it theoretically perfect?ā The question is, āIs it compatible with your lifelong term and your happiness?ā With all these questions and with any question that you have, any answer that you hear, try to make sure, āI can actually do this in my life sustainably and enjoyably. If I canāt, the answer is no. If I can, the answer is yes.ā
April: Okay, I love that. All right, can I give a little sneak peak for our next show?
Jonathan: Sure, yes.
April: Okay, because this is another question that I was asked where they want to know personal preferences like, literally, what you and I eat. We talked about a SANE day and we talked about kind of overall but between now and the next get our podcast recorded, we want toāJonathan, you eat kind of weird.
Everybody wants to know literally, What does Jonathan eat? Iām going to be actually taking some really good notes and sharing what Iām eating and I actually want to be able to talk with you, Jonathan, a little bit and see if there are some ways I could tweak what Iām eating to make it even SANEr or better and just be able to share some of the things that we like and things that are working. Does that sound good?
Jonathan: It soundsāthis is like an episode of ā24ā from back in the day with that cliffhanger ending that makes you want to tune in. Next time on the SANE Show, what are Jonathan and April actually eating? I love it. I love it.
As the next action, I would say, as a follow-up next action, people just have to kind of calm down because theyāre probably so excited after hearing that that that is their stretch goalāis to continue with your life with that much excitement as the next week is coming up. No, I think that sounds great, April.
I hope everyone is as excited to cover that as I know you and I are. I hope that this mail bag was helpful.
Remember, this week and every week after, stay SANE.






